Back in July, I wrote a post by the same title. My goal in that post was to help you see that it takes more faith to be an atheist when the correct definition of faith is used. I wrote the original blog in response to an atheist podcast I was listening to where they said the very question of atheists having more faith makes no sense. You can read that initial blog here.
The purpose of part 2 is to respond to a question that I received on my first blog. A reader wrote in an offered the following comment.
As an atheist, I do have to say that I cringe when others try to insist that faith is defined as belief without evidence. That’s not how I understood faith when I was a Christian, and it’s not how the Christians with whom I converse understand faith. I define faith in pretty much the same way that you do: trust in a person or concept.
I really appreciate this first part. It is always nice when someone holding to a different worldview will allow me to define the terms for my own view. Just as I wouldn’t redefine a word and claim that an atheist must accept that definition, I wouldn’t want them to do it to me. The reader continued.
That said, I still don’t see how one could justify the claim that atheists have more faith than do theists. Presumably, both classes of people have faith in their families, friends, authority figures, and beliefs. However, theists also have faith in at least one further entity which atheists do not: God. That would seem to imply that theism necessarily requires more faith than atheism.
By what measure does atheism require more trust in persons or concepts than does theism?
We are not adding up faith
I agree both the Christian and the atheist have faith in their families, friends, and beliefs, but to trying to total the person’s faith would be utterly impossible. How would you even go about adding this up faith? What if as a Christian I only had faith in God and not my family and friend? Would an atheist then have more faith because they have faith in family and friends and I only have faith in God? They have more faith by a score of 2-1.
The other option would be to try to figure out how much faith you had in every single person around you and total that up. But as you can see, that would be completely impossible. Exactly how many friends do I have faith in?
I’m talking about faith in a person
Let’s say that we are in a courtroom and there is a man who is being charged with murder. The more evidence of the person’s guilt, the easier it is to trust that they committed the crime. If I have good reason to believe he is guilty then it is easy to trust the prosecutor. If the prosecutor cannot answer basic questions about the crime, then it takes a lot more trust to believe what the prosecutor is saying.
I think this is similar to the faith we have in Jesus. The Christian worldview answers the deep questions about life and provides evidence for the person of Jesus. The biggest piece of evidence is His life, death, and resurrection. The atheist worldview cannot answer big questions like: Why is there something rather than nothing? Where did first life come from? How did consciousness arise from unconscious matter? For this reason, it is easier to trust that Christianity is true and say that it takes more faith to be an atheist. Christianity provides better answers to life’s big questions.
Belief In vs Belief That
Finally, before any Christians get upset, there is a difference between the belief that a worldview is true and belief in Jesus. We do have a faith in Jesus that an atheist doesn’t have, and I am not saying that believing Christianity is true is enough for someone to be saved. I am responding to the idea of faith that a worldview, or belief, is true.
So, by what measure does atheism require more trust in persons or concepts than does theism? Atheism requires more trust in their worldview because the evidence is not on the side of atheism. The naturalistic or secular worldview cannot answer some of the most important questions which makes it take more faith to believe it is true. Believing that the Christian worldview is true takes less faith because Christianity best explains the world around us. Once you believe that Christianity is true, the final step is to believe in Jesus.
What do you think? Comment below!
think-well.org 
August 31, 2018 at 1:42 pm
Faith…. I get a laugh out of people who argue this. Instead of using words like “Confidence”, “Trust”, they want to wrap everything into the word faith. What the heck does “I have faith in my wife” really mean?
Atheism, when it comes to others religion has nothing to do with faith. The theist is making the claim and the atheist is rejecting the claims being made.
“The biggest piece of evidence is His life, death, and resurrection”
Atheists are not the only ones who reject this claim. There are no extra-biblical sources from witnesses of a resurrection. I don’t doubt there may have been a nice Jewish preacher spreading the good word but the biblical stories of mysticism come decades after the fact.
“The atheist worldview cannot answer big questions like: Why is there something rather than nothing? Where did first life come from? How did consciousness arise from unconscious matter? For this reason, it is easier to trust that Christianity is true and say that it takes more faith to be an atheist. Christianity provides better answers for life’s big questions.”
Atheism is just a rejection of theism. That is all. Some embrace science but the “big bang” is not a precept of atheism. In fact, many religions don’t even cover some of “the big questions”..in fact, the bible doesn’t cover much of the stuff like “How did consciousness arise from unconscious matter”. Theists tend to point to something that humans do not have knowledge of and say “God did it” because they have no other answer. I wonder how many times in the past 500 years science changed that thought process.
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September 3, 2018 at 3:59 pm
David, I appreciate the comment. Atheism is not just a rejection of theist claims. But even if that were true, rejecting the claim that God exists would mean the atheist is saying God doesn’t exist. That is a belief. If you say it is only a lack of belief then I have written this article in response (https://coffeehousequestions.com/2016/08/30/do-atheists-simply-lack-a-belief-in-god/).
I didn’t say that atheists are the only ones that reject Jesus’s death and resurrection. However, that is still one of the biggest pieces of evidence for Christianity. Would you disagree with atheist/skeptic historians like John Dominic Crossan and Bart Ehrman that there are extra-biblical sources on the resurrection?
I agree with you that all atheists believe different things when it comes to the big bang, but that doesn’t take away from a secular or atheistic worldview. This would hold that God either doesn’t exist or is irrelevant. This would also hold that God isn’t the moral lawgiver that we all must follow. The Bible doesn’t cover every topic in depth, but the Christian worldview does answer those questions and it’s not “God of the gap” as you claim.
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September 3, 2018 at 6:26 pm
Atheism is indeed a rejection of the theist claim of a god. My response pointed out that the misuse of “faith” and I see you have moved onto “belief” now. I have many beliefs, it’s amazing! I root them in as much fact as possible. Do you believe in other gods other than the Christian god? That is a belief! As for me, I take the various theist claims and I find there is no evidence and as such, I reject it.
Yes, I would disagree that there is extra-biblical sources concerning the resurrection. There is Christian interpolation. If you have some sources, I’d certainly review them.
The atheist “worldview” is just a rejection of the theist claim of a god. So yes, an atheist would disagree that a god is a moral lawgiver or the source of morality.
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September 4, 2018 at 4:55 pm
David, I want to make sure I understand you correctly. If “atheism is just a rejection of the theist claim of a God,” would you also say that theism is just the rejection of the atheist claim that there is no God?
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September 5, 2018 at 9:10 am
Interesting question. Let’s break it down. Theism is simply the belief in a God. Atheism is the rejection of that claim. I (atheist) am not making a claim that there is no god, just that I do not have evidence of one. You can certainly reject the claim that there is no evidence.
This is why I mentioned if you believe in the God of Judaism and Islam (or other world religion gods). As an atheist, I’ve heard many claims of god, none of which I have evidence. I’m sure you also reject the claims of those other religions. In effect, I take your rejection of other gods one step further.
I hope that clarifies the matter.
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September 5, 2018 at 4:24 pm
It does clarify things a bit, but I’m still trying to understand what you mean by one part. You say that you are not making a claim and that you simply say that you do not have evidence. First, if someone were to ask you, “Does God exist?” what would you say? Second, what if a Christian said, “I’m not saying that God exist, just that I do have evidence of one.”? Would you consider that equal and therefore not making a claim?
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September 5, 2018 at 6:46 pm
If I was asked “Does God Exist?”, I would likely err on having the person define their god, It is interesting to hear the various definitions. Some people define their god as an entity, that created the world, who created everything, a moral law giver, omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent..etc. When pressed, those that make these claims are unable to provide evidence for… but they may offer arguments such as the cosmological argument or any argument that attempts to infer a god. I don’t find these very convincing.
I am intrigued when people describe their “god” something along the lines of “Spinoza’s God” or the mystery of it all. -But why refer to it as a “god”, it kind of blurs the line of “God of the Gaps”. Why not refer to it just as a mystery, “unknown” or simply that we just don’t know or have an answer for.
If a Christian said “I’m not saying that god exists, just that I do have evidence for one”. I would ask them to expand on that. I think it is honest for the Christian (or any theist) to admit that they don’t know for a fact that a god exists but to say they have evidence??? I would definitely ask them what evidence. I can see them say “I’m not saying that god exists but I have a belief in one” is also honest. As I said in my last message, it seems crazy to me that one has a belief in (ie.) a Christian God but turn around and claim that all other religions that have a belief in their own god are false.
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September 6, 2018 at 4:56 pm
Okay, so you didn’t answer my first question. Does the Christian God exists?
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September 6, 2018 at 6:42 pm
You didn’t ask me if a Christian God exists. You said “ if someone were to ask you, “Does God exist?” what would you say?” And I answered that, I outlined my thought process.
If you now want to ask me if I believe in a Christian God, I’ll address it. Simply put, I have been given various stories about a Christian God but I don’t find them credible. I’ve never been given compelling evidence and as such I reject the notion of a god. Let’s face it, every monotheistic religion will claim that only their god is true and all others are false. They can’t all be true but they can all be false.
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September 7, 2018 at 5:36 am
So would you say they are all false?
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September 7, 2018 at 8:46 am
How about you answer your own question this time. Which gods do you believe are true and which ones false?
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September 7, 2018 at 10:44 am
Why is it that you won’t answer my question? Does the Christian God exist?
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September 7, 2018 at 10:49 am
This might seem ridiculous to you, but I am trying to fully understand your position so there is no confusion. You said, “I have been given various stories about a Christian God but I don’t find them credible.” Does that mean you think the Christian God doesn’t exist? Does it mean you are not sure and don’t know? Do you think He does exist but that there are no credible stories yet? What exactly is your view?
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September 7, 2018 at 2:33 pm
As for your questions:
First it was “Does a God Exist”, then “Does the Christian God exists?”, then it was “So would you say they are all false?” and now we are back to “Does the Christian God exist?”.
Earlier I explained that a “theist” is making a claim of a god….
He tells “a friend” that a god exists, that we cannot see this god but “theist” can feel his presence. He continues to explain “god created the universe!” “He created all the planets, the stars, the earth” He claims this god created the air we breath, the water, the trees..etc.
His friend ask “how do you know?”
The Theist says “I believe it”,
His friend asks for proof, the Theist makes more claims! This situation goes back and forth for a little while before his friend says “this doesn’t sound credible, I reject your notion of a god”. We now have what is called an “atheist”.
Christian’s were once called atheists (Atheos) because they did not believe in the Pagan/Roman gods.. crazy huh?
So when it comes to Christianity, we have a new spin on “God”. There is debate that Jesus did not fulfill all the Messianic Prophecies. There are many claims made about Jesus up to and including his death and Resurrection. Anytime I have asked for Extra-Biblical evidence of events, people tell me they will get that evidence for me but never get back to me. Sure there is a blurb in Antiquities of the Jews but that has been shown to be subject to Christian Interpolation. Getting back to the resurrection narrative, for 300+ years before Jesus, empty tombs were not uncommon, people thought an empty tomb meant divinity.
One of the reasons I asked you about the god of Islam and Judaism is to find out where you stood on the topic. Most Christian’s (I haven’t quizzed as many of the Jewish or Islamic faith) believe that these gods are separate gods. They say how the God of Judaism and Islam are false… Strange, each of these religions utilize the OT/Tanakh/Tawrat(Quran) – and each god is the God of Abraham.
…and it’s not limited to different religions. There is disagreement on a wide range of topics within Christianity. I see your blog has addressed a few of them.
Even though I am an atheist, I do study/research world religions and the history behind them. I think the concepts and history behind them are kind of groovy. (Can I still use that word?). How early religions have been integrated into the religions that replaced them. (ie. Paganism in Christianity). Very interesting stuff.
So no… even if I believed in a God, I would not believe this god would be a Christian specific god.
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September 7, 2018 at 4:04 pm
David, thank you for the response. I was simply clarifying my question at the beginning so that you knew exactly what I meant, and I wanted to understand exactly what you were saying. What I asked “Does God exist?” I was talking about the Christian God. I was not an attempt to change the topic but to clarify.
Second, if you have only heard from a theist “I believe it” then I’m sorry. That is not a good response. As you can see with my blog and pretty much any other apologetics site, we do not make that statement. We provide arguments for God’s existence and the reliability of the New Testament.
Third, Antiquities by Josephus isn’t the only reference to the death of Jesus. Tacitus, Thallus, Talmud, Lucian, Mara Bar-Scrapion, and Phlegon mention the crucifixion as well. Also, even if Antiquities has Christian interpolation, we still have a good idea of what the original said. This is what led skeptic, John Dominic Crossan, to even say, “I take it absolutely for granted that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate. Security about the fact of the crucifixion derives not only from the unlikelihood that Christians would have invented it but also from the existence of two early and independent non-Christian witnesses to it, a Jewish one from 93-94 C.E. and a Roman one from the 110s or 120s C.E.” If it is so obviously just Christian interpolation, why would Crossan still use it and be convinced by it?
Finally, I could explain my thoughts on the differences between God in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, but that is irrelevant to the discussion we are having based on the Christian concept of God. We are just looking at the questions as to weather God exists.
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September 8, 2018 at 11:43 am
1: No Problem!
2: I was making a basic statement. Truth be told, I’ve been through the gamut of Philosophical, Moral, Ontological..etc arguments. AND I wasn’t even the aggressor in these arguments! 🙂 You see, what happens, someone will say they are Atheist or do not have a belief in a god to the wrong person and BOOM! 🙂 They see that as an opportunity to challenge the atheist to an intellectual dual. It’s old hat to me now but I do like to correct people when they misunderstand atheism.
2a. … and let’s not go through the arguments, lol. I debated someone online for months and in the end I said “You are not closer to proving a god than I am disproving one”.
3. I do have to admit, when you said “skeptic” about John Crossan, it was a head scratcher to me. The name sounded familiar so I watched one of his debates and it refreshed my memory. I wouldn’t so much call him a skeptic as I know it, he is a Christian. He has done his scholarly work on Christianity and he is a bit unorthodox in his views of the NT. I think his thoughts on the Gospels are interested, I have heard it from various sources that each Gospel was written for a different audience.
…3… You listed off some names but many of these sources are second hand. They are not first person accounts. The earliest, which I believe was Mara Bar Serapion is dated somewhere between 75 AD to 300 AD. If I give you the 75 AD, that is 40 years after Jesus’ death. Was this second hand? It sounds it. The letter states “What advantage did the ((JEWS)) gain from executing their wise king”. Tacitus (116 AD), Thallus is sketchy but refers to an Eclipse which would not happen around Easter/Passover/Vernal Equinox. Talmud refers to Yeshu but that dates 100 years before Christ. Lucian was about 150 AD, Phlegon (2nd Century)… also refers to an Eclipse… Some dates above are an estimate but I suppose the main point, these are second hand accounts. What about the more than 500 witnesses? I understand the point that they did not have the technology that we do today. Not everyone was able to read and write… and we can use the reasoning that writings, scrolls and manuscripts degrade over time… but 500+ witnesses to a resurrection, hundreds of thousands of people who are claimed to have listened to him and witnessed miracles, even Jesus himself does not have any writing attributed to him.
…to answer the question at the end, Crosson appears to believe Jesus was crucified but my understanding is he doesn’t believe in the resurrection.
Finally! I don’t know… if we are discussing the God of Abraham, I think it is pertinent to take the entire god concept into consideration. If I really wanted to know the truth, as a Christian, I would wonder why there are so many different concepts. I would probably search sources external to Christianity to explain Christianity. Of course (most) Christian sources will explain the concept in their terms only. Once you include other scholarly and secular sources, it opens the door to a great deal of knowledge…albeit, sometimes conflicting with what you believe.
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September 19, 2018 at 3:41 pm
I want to make sure I understand you right on #3. You are saying that we can’t trust the sources because they are too late or not clear enough. You don’t want second hand accounts. But then you also throw out the eyewitness story in the Bible. So, are you saying that you will only trust a source if it is first-hand, early, eyewitness testimony of the death and resurrection of Jesus from a person who did not have their life changed by what they saw?
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September 20, 2018 at 11:49 am
It is the sum of the parts. You have a teacher in Jesus but he wrote nothing? -no writings attributed to him. (There is a purported letter to a king but it’s authenticity is in dispute). We have slightly differing stories from Mark, Matthew, Luke and John. Mark of course ends at the open tomb and pretty much ends there. (Why was there a need for people to embellish the rest?). John, Matthew, Paul, Mark We have “5000” Witnesses yet there is no testimony of those 5000 witnesses. Not to mention, all of the people who he performed miracles in front of. Wouldn’t it make sense there were external sources to recount these stories?
Most Historians are writing about what is going on at the time. They are reporting on a new “cult” and what the people believe. I have an issue with Interpolation. Why not let facts stand instead of attempting to make them more mystical?
What eyewitness stories from the bible? The ones from the anonymous disciples?
I don’t throw throw out every claim because it is in the bible. The new testament has some historical information in it as well. Some that read more as history rather than prophecy.
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September 22, 2018 at 2:04 pm
Do you take this same approach to all of ancient history?
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September 22, 2018 at 6:55 pm
I can’t say that I use the same approach to all of ancient history but I have been studying world religions and the history behind them for 10+ years.
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September 24, 2018 at 3:39 pm
The reason I ask is that it seems like you are taking a 21st century approach to history and applying it to the 1st century. People simply did not write down information back then like we do today. So, if you compare Jesus with other historical figures like Alexander the Great, there are more people talking about Jesus and much earlier. With that taken into account, if you trust what is said about other historical figures, then the testimonies about Jesus become that much more credible. If you don’t trust stories about Jesus becuase the writings aren’t clear or soon enough, then do you also discount what is also said about other historical figures? If Alexander the Great was so great, why didn’t more people write about him?
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September 24, 2018 at 7:02 pm
I addressed part of your comment along the lines of people did not write things down. I mentioned people may not have known how to read and write and that some texts may have degraded over time. Most people compare the lack of information regarding Jesus in a comparison to Socrates but Alexander the Great? There is more texts, artifacts and lets face it, coins, to back up the claims Alexander existed even from nations he went to war against. Alexander the Great was not a “god’ and still, for having existed 300+ years prior to Jesus, there is much more reliable information on Alexander the Great.
If you think comparing Alexander the Great to Jesus makes Jesus’ testimony more credible, you probably want to take some time out to research the treasure trove of information on Alexander the Great. I know people believe what they want but once I got the ball rolling on the intricate details of history, I was hungry for a deeper understanding.
(Ie. Why is Christmas on Dec 25th? Why are there pagan elements, why did the pagans celebrate.. what is Winter Solstice. Easter/Passover/Pagan/Vernal Equinox… Why do these rituals, feasts and festivals coincide with celestial events? – rhetorical questions) When you dig in and investigate the origins of various religions, it kind of sucks you in and you thirst for more. It gives what you believe an entirely different meaning.
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September 1, 2018 at 11:35 am
Wait a minute..
If you’re using faith as an alleged negative aspect of atheism, then aren’t you also required to reject religion as well for the same reason ?
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September 3, 2018 at 3:48 pm
Thanks for the questions Amanda. I am not saying that faith is bad. There are different kinds of faith. You could break it up into three different categories. Unreasonable faith is when you believe contrary to the evidence. Blind faith is when you believe something without evidence. Evidential faith is when you believe something that lines up with the evidence.
It is much harder to trust something is true when there is either no evidence or when it is contrary to the evidence. Faith comes easier when what you trust in lines up with evidence. I would put the atheistic worldview into the blind faith category if not unreasonable faith. That is why it takes more faith to be an atheist, while at the same time not making faith be negative. Does this help?
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December 16, 2018 at 10:41 am
I think someone needs to read up on the definition of faith, and develop an understanding that one can hold a view, a preference, or a conclusion, without it being defined as faith. There is a significant difference and your word games are childish.
Kudos to you David K, for managing the moving goalposts very well.
Amanda, hoist them by their own petards! 🙂
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May 4, 2019 at 9:15 pm
Sorry, I could not finish all the ridiculous banter in the above commentary. But I want to ask, where are all your christian friends? In this post and part 1, you have now managed to inspire 5 atheists to comment, including me. Yet you are the only one defending your belief in a god of any kind, Abrahamic or otherwise. I believe you said “you have evidence” of a christian god. I therefore ask you to produce this evidence, but I will not look at self-serving evidence such as showing me words from a book called a bible, since you cannot prove something by using it to prove itself. Nor can you use anything that you got from outside sources, and certainly not from religious expert witnesses. No, I want to see “your evidence”! Evidence that you saw god on such and such a date in such and such a place, and here is the selfie to prove it. That is the kind of thing I will accept as evidence. It must be something you yourself witnessed, and have tangible evidence of.
Remember, it is you making the claim that there is a god, and you have evidence of that god. Oh, if you have the bible that god wrote, and proof that god wrote it, I will accept that, but I will not accept a facsimile, or even a faithful copy. I will be waiting your reply. And I won’t change the request. REAL TANGIBLE PROOF.
Please.
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May 5, 2019 at 7:12 pm
That is a really good question! I don’t know where all the Christian commenters are.
As far as evidence, it looks like we have a different standard of what qualifies as evidence. But, if you truly hold to your standard of evidence as something you have personally seen and taken a selfie to prove, then do you reject everything about history before the invention of the camera?
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